ailon's DevBlog: Development related stuff in my life

More on "The DotNetKicks Effect"

2/15/2008 11:16:47 AM

As I can see from your comments many have misinterpreted what I wanted to say in my Yesterday's post. So I need to clarify a few things.

First of all I love DotNetKicks! Without it I doubt I would ever get across the excellent Amr Elsehemy's series on Custom Controls Design Time Support which is what I'm currently doing for the best flash charts in the world (shameless plug, sorry ;)

Secondly I've never stated that DotNetKicks is going to degrade in quality to zero or to the level of digg (whichever is lower). The point of my post was that the higher the front page bar the lower are the chances of quality content from less popular sources to get through and the bar should be inevitably raised as popularity of DNK grows.

Some numbers

In the first 9 hours since my post post was submitted to DNK I got about 15 hits from there (I don't have exact hourly stats but this number could be off by +/- a couple of hits at most). Then it became popular/published and in the next 9 hours I've got 250 hits from DNK. That means about 6% of DNK users read "Upcoming stories" and/or read by tags, search, etc. If we take what we know about DNK stats - ~4000 main RSS subscribers, we get 240 RSS readers of not front page articles.

I know that these numbers are affected by things like that at the time of submission it was afternoon in Europe, evening in Asia and early morning in America and when it was published it was day in America, evening in Europe and night in Asia. But these are not presidential elections so that is not that important for the general picture.

My point in other words

As some of you have correctly reminded me, DNK has Tags and that's sort of additional way for content to get noticed. So let's rephrase my statement about "kicking" sources:

  1. DotNetKicks.com (including "upcoming stories", tags, search)
  2. Badge/KickIt button on the contents own site

So <Total number of kicks> = <DNK kicks> + <Content site kicks>

Now let's break down these 2 parts:

<DNK kicks> = <number of DNK users reading through upcoming stories, tags, searching> * <content quality coefficient>

<number of DNK users reading through upcoming stories, tags, searching> is a constant at any given time. <content quality coefficient> is also a constant for a specific article (though I don't agree that this is 100% true without regard to the name of the author). So the number of <DNK kicks> is a equal for the same article published on small blog with 5 readers or bigger site with 10,000 readers.

Now on to <Content site kicks>:

<Content site kicks> = <number of site's readers> * <current or potential DNK users percentage> * <content quality coefficient>

Provided that <current or potential DNK users percentage> and <content quality coefficient> are equal for both sites in our example, we get that <Content site kicks> is directly dependant on the <number of site's readers>. In our sample this means that the site with 10,000 readers has a potential of getting 2000 times more kicks than the site with 5 readers.

Note: I know that it's not all that straightforward in real world and that any decent mathematician would laugh in my face for such a linear approach, but, though I accept that actual numbers and formulas are oversimplified, the principle stands.

We are already seeing these things in action. As rev4bart noted in the comments to my post on DNK: "theblogengine...didn't 5 different themes make the top page in consecutive days?". I love BlogEngine.NET but is a release of a single theme for it worth of front page status? I don't think so.

Solutions?

Personally I think that digg's concept is flawed by design. But that doesn't mean that nothing can be done about it. Digg is doing something about it (balancing the "secret formula", etc.).

I see this possible routes:

  1. Getting rid of the KickIt image and banning for "kick requests" on the site. This is radical and not going to happen but from the top of my head this is the only real solution.
  2. "Balancing the formula". I don't know if it is possible to track the initial source of the kick reliably (DNK or site) but DNK kicks could have a higher weight than site kicks. Kicks from "friends" should have a lower weight than strangers, new users lower weight than veterans, those who kicked other stories by the same author lower weight than those who never kicked anything by this author, etc.
  3. "Controlled democracy". Addition of moderators/editors. Not sure though what they would be responsible for (pre-approving kicked articles before becoming front-page news or selecting additional front page articles from the ones with lower kick counts or both)

Another option is to enjoy DNK while it's still very good and deal with problems later. Your ideas?

kick it on DotNetKicks.com
Digg It!DZone It!StumbleUponTechnoratiRedditDel.icio.usNewsVineFurlBlinkList

Related posts

Comments

2/15/2008 3:05:36 PM

Ryan Lanciaux

Woah, thank you for detailed article Smile I will say I do think time of day and day submitted matters (especially weekends -- not as many people are using the site then, it seems).

Personally, I think the solution may be implementing some concepts from the dnk live site (http://widgets.dotnetkicks.com/) into the main page. That way, people could vote for the upcoming stories but also see the main content that is currently popular.

Ryan Lanciaux us

2/15/2008 3:26:35 PM

ailon

Well, it's hard to find a general pattern. I don't visit DNK front page at all. I subscribe to RSS and then click on the links to interesting posts. So I go to the inner pages straight. But I have no idea what the common (most popular) pattern is. Only the ones with access to detailed DNK stats and willingness to analyze them could know that.

Anyway you can't force a person to be an editor if he wants to be a reader only. But a blogger/writer can persuade his loyal readers to click that single button much easier. I think I'd rather read a feed from the site where everyone can submit an entry but only a group of "professional" editors would vote it through to front page. But this is not the rage in Web 2.0 age Smile

ailon lt

2/15/2008 10:28:33 PM

John S.

You've failed to convince me that there's a problem to be solved now or even in the future. Even if the percentage of Upcoming Stories kickers is always small relative to the overall user base, that group is a pretty good filter for narrowing down quality content.

I bet the BlogEngine.net theme submissions made it to the front page because of outside promotion because I'm hoping the majority of the Upcoming kickers don't think those are front-page worthy.

You didn't give a single example of some no-name blogger with quality content not making it to the front page. And to top it off, your posts (on your brand new, no-name blog) made the DNK front page two days in a row basically disproving your argument.

John S. us

2/16/2008 12:02:49 AM

ailon

John. First of all my yesterday's post was titled "The DNK Effect - Enjoy while it lasts". Even the title suggests that there's no problem at this point. And I stated several times in that article and in this one that the problem will become a real one when the popularity bar is raised.

Your second paragraph on BlogEngine.NET thems is exactly what I mean. External promotion makes it much easier for the post to get promoted to frontpage. And most often that "external promotion" is the post itself. You have a very good and popular blog engine and you can make your theme kicked 6 times in a very short time with none of these kicks originating at DNK.com

My post making it to the frontpage only proves that I can make it to the frontpage with current "6 kicks bar". Make it 30 or even 15 and I'll never make it to the frontpage.

ailon lt

Add comment


(Will show your Gravatar icon)  

  Country flag

[b][/b] - [i][/i] - [u][/u]- [quote][/quote]



Live preview

10/13/2008 11:01:36 AM

Copyright © 2003 - 2008 Alan Mendelevich
Powered by BlogEngine.NET 1.3.1.0